Thursday, August 30, 2007

Ninja or Defense?

Houston, we have a problem.

Now, I was one of the first to say that there was a massive disparity before the update between dual-wielders and two-handers, and that it really needed to be addressed. SE has addressed it, but have they gone too far? Now, I am not digging people that are whining about not being top DD's anymore because honestly, we all needed to be a ton closer, and the disparity before was so large that it pretty much excluded a huge set of jobs from merit parties. And those DD's were usually the ones that perpetuated the disparity between the two DD types. But I am wondering if this is all too much. Any number of the improvements would have been enough but all of them together may be a bit much.

I stand to gain much from this update, with my Haste set-up and my Soboro I can WS three times per XP mob. With a lucky Seigan I can solo VT mobs, and that is with /WAR. I could probably do much more with /NIN. Now, a MNK or WAR could have probably done the same before the update, but it just seems weird to me. I don't know if I like it yet, it seems much was given but it was not because of my own efforts. Perhaps it is to make up for literally years of imbalance, and if one thinks about it that way, then it may not be so bad.

Anyway, here is the point of this post. I take way too much damage now. I used to be able to go SAM/WAR and leave Hasso up most of the time, only switching to Seigan when I pulled hate. Now, I have to leave Seigan up full time and I still take a ridiculous amount of damage. This is not so bad when Omoi is doing the healing full time, but I do not think that a RDM could keep up with the damage without liberal use of Cure IV (I will comment about how this update might actually have an effect on party set-ups later). I can say that I have yet to XP with a RDM as main healer since the update, but even with Seigan used full time by both myself and Hellzfury in a party with Borin (NIN), Izman (WAR/NIN), Hellz (DRG/SAM), and I (SAM/WAR), we were rapidly depleting Omoi's MP supply. The question for me then becomes is Berserk worth it? Yes, it will increase my damage but it will also increase the take I take. MNK's have pretty much over the years figured out that /NIN was the only way for them to go, and they actually had more to lose from subbing NIN that I do because I have been using and liking Soboro so the Double Attack buff is irrelevant to me (this is assuming that Soboro attacks evenly across all of its potential procs, which I believe that it does) because DA procs before the Soboro does so it would only increase the number of 2 swing attacks which would have zero effect on the total number of attacks because 2 swings would already be the average number of attacks. It would be more consistent but would not affect the average at all. The problem with /NIN is that I would not be able to use Hasso or Seigan essentially, because they double the casting time and recast of Ninjutsu spells. So, I would end up only losing Berserk while gaining survivability, since I can not even use Hasso right now as it is. I suppose that I will also lose the other extraneous /WAR benefits like Defense Boost and what ever marginal difference in stats between /WAR and /NIN. Now, I can not remember if you can click off Hasso and Seigan but if you can, the /NIN may make it so that I can use Hasso for a limited time. I could put up shadows, pop on Hasso until I needed to case shadows again, click it off, put up the shadows then put up Hasso again in a minute. This has all be rolling around in my head, but the other option may be a bit more expensive.

What about a defense set up? Now, I can't say that this was solely my idea, and I have no problem gleaning good ideas off of other people, but there is another SAM Rukenshin (really good player, you should read his never updated LiveJournal) that instead of worrying about shadows, or I supposed Seigan as much, just switches in a very well thought out damage reduction set. Now, the best thing with stealing other people's good ideas is that you can put a twist on them call it all new, patent it and make a fortune. LOL That is not what I am trying to do here, the main difference is that he actually uses his defense set for tanking, and I am just going to use mine for "HOLY SHIT! MAKE THE MOB STOP PUNCHING ME IN THE FACE!" situations. So I will be much less worried about things like Max HP or MP to HP gear and much more focused on sheer Def/VIT/Damage redcution. I am still working on this idea, but here is what I was thinking of with the gear I have right now.

Head: Genbu's Kabuto
Neck: Haven't come up with anything yet.
Earring1: Haven't come up with anything yet.
Earring2: Haven't come up with anything yet.
Body: Arhat's Gi +1
Hands: Seiryu's Kote
Ring1: Jelly Ring
Ring2: Maybe Bomb Queen Ring, but HP isn't going to matter much I think.
Back: Haven't come up with anything yet.
Waist: Warwolf Belt
Legs: Byakko's Haidate
Feet: Suzaku Sune-ate

Rukenshin also mentioned Hydra Gear which I like the idea of the additional damage reduction, but I don't remember the damage being all that great, we will have to see.

But this may all go out the window tonight because SE just announced this: So maybe I wont be doing all that damage now and getting my face pounded in. If they return to the old universal pDIF limitation then my max damage will go down and Crit hits will matter again, but I will still be doing a ton more damage than I was in the past. Besides, I am really liking my SAM, its a nice change of pace from my other jobs, so the defense set-up is something that I might look into anyway.

I got home late last night, so I just pretty much XPed for a while. The first party I made and it was horrible, the BRD didn't do anything but die, and the WHM couldn't keep up even as a Taru. I didn't even get a merit in that party. Later I grabbed Borin, Izman, Omoikitte, the NIN from the previous party and a cute little Taru COR and we went to fight Trolls on the west side of Mount Zhaylom. It was a decent party but too slow because we didn't really have a puller, but I did manage to net this Tachi: Gekko I liked it especially considering that was with a 40 damage weapon... o.o; well, I think that is what they are fixing today. The NIN in our party refused to use Blade: Jin and Borin questioned why, and the nice NIN informed us that Blade: Ku was the better weaponskill, which caused Borin and Omoikitte to politely protest, to which the nice NIN took umbrage. /sigh I don't understand why it is so hard for people to take constructive criticism, I mean this guy was a 74 NIN in a party with three 75 NIN's that are very well equipped and knowledgeable. We were not condescending nor rude, just making a suggestion. After they decide they knew better, we just let it drop basically, but it was upsetting and disturbing to have to play with people that are so ignorant about the game they play. >.<

I wanted to add something quickly and that is how I believe this update may change how parties are formed. I believe that by increasing everyones damage without having to, or being unable to sub NIN, we going to hit two different walls in XP. They are both related to how much more damage the two-handers will be doing now. First, the need for a first voker will become more important for survivability and strangely enough will become less important for damage. From my observations, mobs are dying at an increased rate now, and the importance of the tank to try to hold the mob for as long as possible is increased, in turn as the damage of two-handers is improved, the damage of NIN is relatively reduced. Will it drop to the point that their damage input is marginal in an XP party allowing a PLD to be introduced into the party in their stead? I don't know about that but it does make PLD a much more viable tank for burn parties if for no other reason that extra support that will be needed to help out those jobs that are not going to sub NIN, like SAM, DRG and DRK. Second, the need for more healing may become important, so that parties may become something more like Tank, DD, DD, healer, sub-healer/support, buffer. For example, NIN, DRG, SAM, WHM, RDM, BRD. With the increased damage taken this may become necessary to sustain the MP of the party and could be done without worry of not killing fast enough because even in the most mob-crowded camps mobs are dying too quickly, but players are taking tons of damage.

Again this may all change with the announced fixes but I wanted to mention it because of I thought of it before the fix. >.<

Anyway, Fuzzball found me this little gem. Enjoy it in all its glory.

10 comments:

Minusdkp said...

lol ass-helm

Anonymous said...

I <3 Ass on my head


Brings a new meaning to "Ass on the mind"

Anonymous said...

Ringthree:
So Hellzfury wheres your head been lately ...seems to be ....
that your head is stuck up your ass..................helmet.





Helmet hair :P

zven said...

ace = ass in german
ass = arsch in german

Anonymous said...

They just announced:
Current Known Issues form update:

-Amount of damage is not corrected properly when characters are equipped with 2 handed weapons



someone also states JP pol says it slightly different:


- when calculating damage for players equipped with 2-handed weapons, the damages ratings upper limit isn't being corrected properly



can mean a few things:
-nerf on some ws damage on NMS like tiamat ect...
-nerf on damage across the board
-a correcting of some ws's by applying a cap
-maybe the crit cap on 2 hands is too low not calculated right and we will get more dot.
-as a Drk who already does good damage it seems that everyone else has had a great improvement but I had only a minor imporvement in damage ...maybe this will be amended
-nerfing weapons like Soboro
-the damage on ws are not as high as they intended



~BAM

Ringthree said...

Zven, yes, yes, of course we know that its not really ass in German, but thats not a funny to us NA. :)

Anonymous said...

"The NIN in our party refused to use Blade: Jin and Borin questioned why, and the nice NIN informed us that Blade: Jin was the better weaponskill,"

Huh?

Ringthree said...

Yeah, I was hurrying when I typed that, the NIN was using Blade: Ku not Blade: Jin.

Joeofalltrades said...

Ass hat ftw!

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